Hello all,
As promised, my progress so far with these two cars has prompted more questions than answers. Since I am planning full restoration of both cars, and eventual sale of one of them, being certain I have two genuine Cooper S cars is a top priority before I start throwing money around (well, credit anyway).
I know this is going to get long, so thanks for bearing with me.
I have gone through the Cooper S identification articles at minimania.com, ozcooper.com.au, and Parnell's book. With those behind me, I am about 99% sure the 1970 is genuine, and about 95% sure on the 1966. I have a few unresolved questions on each--perhaps someone can assist.
Both cars have 7.5" discs, number plates in the right locations, with matching engine number (for the 1966), 1275 cooper s engines with extra stud and bolt and twin 1.25" SU carbs, numbers match production dates from ozcooper.com.au, twin fuel tanks with correct straps in right rear passenger position, hydrolastic suspension, chrome trim on all side windows, remote gear change, thicker brake pedal stalk, etc. The 1966 has a 120 mph speedo with markings to 130, and the 1970 has a 120 mph speedo that doesn't appear in Parnell's book, but I've just seen another Morris Cooper S on ebay (1967) that has the same speedo as my 1970. You get the picture--most of the correct markers are there.
The lingering doubts come from the following:
1966--Colors listed on the number plate are New British Racing Green and Toga White (which is sort of a grey). The interior of the doors and under the headliner is definitely a dark green, flat original color (non-metallic). The top has been sprayed a grey color, which could well be the Toga White. However, when I sand down a section, there are about 3-4 layers of the grey, and then I come to a cream color and finally a light greenish primer coat and metal. So the question is, was the cream color a primer also, or were the color designators for Oz perhaps different than for the UK? Did a car ever get a different color top than what was on the number plate?
Next, the opening for the remote shift is supposed to be a neat hole. On the '66, the cutout itself was once neat, but it is fairly ragged, i.e. torn around the edges, etc. I could go either way on this--perhaps a neat cutout that was just damaged, or a hole cut later on. So the question here--is there a replacement body panel for the tunnel that would necessitate cutting this hole? In other words, if the original tunnel on a genuine Cooper S rusted, can you get a replacement with the neat hole already in it, or do you have to cut your own, thus causing a ragged hole in a genuine Cooper S? Related, is it common to damage this hole when removing/installing the remote gear change, i.e. prying against the hole's edges?
Finally (for now) on the 1966, the fan shroud has a random number stamped on it, not the engine number--it is hard to read, but I believe it is M061403. On the 1970, the engine number is stamped on the shroud. Would there be any significance to this omission on the MKI, or was it handled differently (as was the number plate, etc.)?
On the 1970, the main question pertains to the speedometer, as mentioned above. Instead of a black face with concentric circles in it, it has a grey face (also from Smith's) and the following lettering: 54M2-1/12 RMPL1312
As I said, I've since seen another fairly original Oz Cooper S with this same speedo, so I feel a bit more confident that this was in fact original, but do any of you know for sure?
On both cars, an oil cooler is fitted, but I also question whether it was original. So the first question is whether any Cooper S models in Oz ever were produced without the oil cooler? If so, I think my question is answered. If not, the next problem is that the nose panel on both cars is not the pre-formed type as seen on cars that came with the oil cooler. Instead, the sheet metal has simply been crudely bent backwards to create a shelf for the oil cooler. On the '70, it's possible that the panel is just damaged but I don't think so. There is a remnant of metal spot-welded to the nose panel on the '70 that is in about the right location to be the end of a diagonal brace, but I can't figure out why anyone would have cut the diagonal brace on a car that already had an oil cooler. Anyway. The question here is, if some Cooper S cars shipped without an oil cooler, would it be normal to see the sheet metal bent and vertical brace removed, as is the case with both cars? If none shipped without an oil cooler, is it possible that the nose panel was just changed and that the replacement panels were not available with a diagonal brace, so the crude fabrication happened as I see it now? I am certain that the '66 front fenders were replaced, as well as the bonnet--it stands to reason that perhaps this car had a front-end accident, and all four parts (fenders, bonnet, nose panel) were replaced, causing the problem mentioned. But the 1970, as near as I can tell, has all of its original sheet metal, so I'm hoping someone tells me that some of them didn't have oil coolers and I can just relax and fix the problem!
Again, sorry for the very lengthy post, and thank you for any insights you might have on these.
tx,
bmc
As promised, my progress so far with these two cars has prompted more questions than answers. Since I am planning full restoration of both cars, and eventual sale of one of them, being certain I have two genuine Cooper S cars is a top priority before I start throwing money around (well, credit anyway).
I know this is going to get long, so thanks for bearing with me.
I have gone through the Cooper S identification articles at minimania.com, ozcooper.com.au, and Parnell's book. With those behind me, I am about 99% sure the 1970 is genuine, and about 95% sure on the 1966. I have a few unresolved questions on each--perhaps someone can assist.
Both cars have 7.5" discs, number plates in the right locations, with matching engine number (for the 1966), 1275 cooper s engines with extra stud and bolt and twin 1.25" SU carbs, numbers match production dates from ozcooper.com.au, twin fuel tanks with correct straps in right rear passenger position, hydrolastic suspension, chrome trim on all side windows, remote gear change, thicker brake pedal stalk, etc. The 1966 has a 120 mph speedo with markings to 130, and the 1970 has a 120 mph speedo that doesn't appear in Parnell's book, but I've just seen another Morris Cooper S on ebay (1967) that has the same speedo as my 1970. You get the picture--most of the correct markers are there.
The lingering doubts come from the following:
1966--Colors listed on the number plate are New British Racing Green and Toga White (which is sort of a grey). The interior of the doors and under the headliner is definitely a dark green, flat original color (non-metallic). The top has been sprayed a grey color, which could well be the Toga White. However, when I sand down a section, there are about 3-4 layers of the grey, and then I come to a cream color and finally a light greenish primer coat and metal. So the question is, was the cream color a primer also, or were the color designators for Oz perhaps different than for the UK? Did a car ever get a different color top than what was on the number plate?
Next, the opening for the remote shift is supposed to be a neat hole. On the '66, the cutout itself was once neat, but it is fairly ragged, i.e. torn around the edges, etc. I could go either way on this--perhaps a neat cutout that was just damaged, or a hole cut later on. So the question here--is there a replacement body panel for the tunnel that would necessitate cutting this hole? In other words, if the original tunnel on a genuine Cooper S rusted, can you get a replacement with the neat hole already in it, or do you have to cut your own, thus causing a ragged hole in a genuine Cooper S? Related, is it common to damage this hole when removing/installing the remote gear change, i.e. prying against the hole's edges?
Finally (for now) on the 1966, the fan shroud has a random number stamped on it, not the engine number--it is hard to read, but I believe it is M061403. On the 1970, the engine number is stamped on the shroud. Would there be any significance to this omission on the MKI, or was it handled differently (as was the number plate, etc.)?
On the 1970, the main question pertains to the speedometer, as mentioned above. Instead of a black face with concentric circles in it, it has a grey face (also from Smith's) and the following lettering: 54M2-1/12 RMPL1312
As I said, I've since seen another fairly original Oz Cooper S with this same speedo, so I feel a bit more confident that this was in fact original, but do any of you know for sure?
On both cars, an oil cooler is fitted, but I also question whether it was original. So the first question is whether any Cooper S models in Oz ever were produced without the oil cooler? If so, I think my question is answered. If not, the next problem is that the nose panel on both cars is not the pre-formed type as seen on cars that came with the oil cooler. Instead, the sheet metal has simply been crudely bent backwards to create a shelf for the oil cooler. On the '70, it's possible that the panel is just damaged but I don't think so. There is a remnant of metal spot-welded to the nose panel on the '70 that is in about the right location to be the end of a diagonal brace, but I can't figure out why anyone would have cut the diagonal brace on a car that already had an oil cooler. Anyway. The question here is, if some Cooper S cars shipped without an oil cooler, would it be normal to see the sheet metal bent and vertical brace removed, as is the case with both cars? If none shipped without an oil cooler, is it possible that the nose panel was just changed and that the replacement panels were not available with a diagonal brace, so the crude fabrication happened as I see it now? I am certain that the '66 front fenders were replaced, as well as the bonnet--it stands to reason that perhaps this car had a front-end accident, and all four parts (fenders, bonnet, nose panel) were replaced, causing the problem mentioned. But the 1970, as near as I can tell, has all of its original sheet metal, so I'm hoping someone tells me that some of them didn't have oil coolers and I can just relax and fix the problem!
Again, sorry for the very lengthy post, and thank you for any insights you might have on these.
tx,
bmc
Comment