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  • Zddp

    There's some interesting reading on the SAMOA facebook page regarding ZDDP in engine oil which is particularly applicable to our flat tappet engines, camshaft break-in procedures and subsequent use.

  • #2
    Yes, standard "off the shelf" oil is not good enough for a mini. A must read
    "remember, in this country, they drive on the wrong side of the road"
    ‘64 Austin Countryman-???
    '60's Austin mini truck - the chicken truck
    '60 Morris Van - Marvan
    '55 Chevy wagon- the heavy Chevy

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    • #3
      Guess what! I completely disagree.

      As far as I've been able to determine the concern over ZDDP started about a decade ago and centered around high performance V8 engine camshaft failures after rebuilds. The failures were usually within a few hours of initial start up, sometimes far less. Since then the story has spread that the lack of ZDDP in oil will cause any flat tappet engine to fail whether newly rebuilt or quite aged (like the ones I tend to run).

      I have not been able to find a single case of camshaft failure in an A-series engine in the last decade and I have asked many people and on several Mini forums. Doing searches over the years it appears that camshaft failure is exceedingly rare. So either everyone is doing a great job of keeping up on the latest in engine oil formulations or the ZDDP theory is overblown. You know which one I'm betting on.

      Just my opinion,

      Kelley
      If you can afford the car, you can afford the manual...

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      • #4
        You know Kelly....you have a point there. I have been using high zinc race oil in my minis ever sence I started rebuilding engines for work and saw for my self what cams look like when running cheep oil. But like you...I have not herd of an A series cam failier yet. Maybe the cam manufactures for A series cams and lifters have there stuff together, so you don't need the ZDDP. But don't try that with a '64 small block running a high lift cam!
        "remember, in this country, they drive on the wrong side of the road"
        ‘64 Austin Countryman-???
        '60's Austin mini truck - the chicken truck
        '60 Morris Van - Marvan
        '55 Chevy wagon- the heavy Chevy

        Comment


        • #5
          I think you're seeing the same thing I am. I have nothing against ZDDP but even oils that only have very small amounts are probably fine. I'm a bit put-off by companies selling ZDDP additives to cure a problem that appears to have no symptoms or at least none I can find evidence of.

          Just so there's no misunderstanding, I'm not in any way criticizing Jerry. He is reading the same things the rest of us are and it is quite compelling. Of course I turned it into a long term research project as if I don't already have enough to do.

          Kelley
          If you can afford the car, you can afford the manual...

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          • #6
            My thought is that back in the fifties, the chemical/petroleum/mechanical engineers that were involved in the design of these flat tappet engines decided that the addition of ZDDP was necessary to prevent premature wear on pressured sliding parts. Articles (read opinions) that I've read, state two major reasons to reduce/remove ZDDP from oil; early failure of catalytic converters, (causing the car manufacturers to squawk about warranty replacement costs) and the other was the use of roller tappets in place of flat tappets, reducing the need for the 'protective film' provided by ZDDP on the tappet and cam lobe surfaces. Nonetheless, Kelley's research hasn't shown any A series engine failures and I have to respect that. Perhaps I am like Chicken Little, waiting for the sky to fall. But having flown helicopters for 20 years, who can blame me? But just in case, using oil that still contains ZDDP and is for use in flat tappet engines is cheap insurance.

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            • #7
              oel s

              so if you want the additive Zink, just buy the oel were it is already in
              and those are Kendall Gt 1 and Valvoline VR 1 ??, so if you buy Castrol
              it is not in , you have to buy the xtra bottle Zink.
              is this correct.?
              peter
              By the way the german Mini Webside had a lot of disscussion about Oel
              which h is the best, many many opinions !! came down to 2o/ 5o
              did not mentioned the addititiive, perhaps in Europe they use different brands/maker and applications
              peter

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              • #8
                The zinc in motor oil is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, the phosphorus part fo the chemical that supplies most of the EP characteristics. Attached is a PDF that has some information on the history of oil myths.

                Kelley
                Attached Files
                If you can afford the car, you can afford the manual...

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                • #9
                  That was a good explanation of the history of the requirement for ZDDP in engine oils. My only concern is that just because the new 'starburst' marked oils are ALLOWED to contain a maximum of 0.08%, it doesn't mean that they WILL. The level could be a lot less. Considering the catalytic converter problem, which way do you think that OEM/Oil manufacturers will jump? However, the fact that "all Starburst oil formulations must pass"the two referenced valve-train wear tests is a pretty convincing argument that the newer oils should be OK. I'm in. Thanks, Kelley.

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